An Atheist Sees the Light

Or should I say the dark? At any rate, he sees and accepts the hopelessness of the atheistic attempt to derive morality from the bare facts of physical existence. The thing that annoys me most about the loud spokesmen for shallow atheism–Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, et.al.–is their refusal even to admit that this problem exists. When challenged, they just start blustering that they don't need God to tell them what's right and wrong, because they just know. But their combination of vehemence, glibness, and smart-sounding English accent seems to keep most people from noticing the emptiness of the response.

This guy, though–Joel Marks, of the University of New Haven–is willing to take a good look at his own assumptions:

I had thought I was a secularist because I conceived of right and wrong as standing on their own two feet, without prop or crutch from God. We should do the right thing because it is the right thing to do, period. But this was a God too. It was the Godless God of secular morality, which commanded without commander – whose ways were thus even more mysterious than the God I did not believe in, who at least had the intelligible motive of rewarding us for doing what He wanted.

And what is more, I had known this. At some level of my being there had been the awareness, but I had brushed it aside. I had therefore lived in a semi-conscious state of self-delusion – what Sartre might have called bad faith.

And absent this Godless God, there is only personal preference (as Nietzsche, the one great atheist, understood):

 I now acknowledge that I cannot count on either God or morality to back up my personal preferences or clinch the case in any argument. I am simply no longer in the business of trying to derive an ought from an is. I must accept that other people sometimes have opposed preferences, even when we are agreed on all the relevant facts and are reasoning correctly.

Of course anyone who realizes that a certain number of people will always have "preferences" that are very unpleasant for everyone else, e.g. the preference for killing anyone who gets in their way, will see that the universal adoption of these beliefs would not leave the world in a very happy condition. And that the next step must be the declaration that all preferences are not equal, and the imposition of some preferences by force. Why anyone would think this is more reasonable and desirable than the idea of a universally applicable transcendent morality is beyond me.

You can read Marks's whole piece here.


19 responses to “An Atheist Sees the Light”

  1. At any rate, he sees and accepts the hopelessness of the atheistic attempt to derive morality from the bare facts of physical existence
    What a remarkable man!

  2. Why anyone would think this is more reasonable and desirable than the idea of a universally applicable transcendent morality is beyond me.
    Indeed.

  3. I think that it is not so much that people find such things preferable to a universal morality, as that they just actually do not believe in a universal morality, and so must settle for something else.
    Having said that, I am not entirely convinced by his analysis (as you have summarized it; I haven’t read the original yet). In recent years I have become more convinced that there is, or could be, a moral system for atheists, broadly along Aristotelian lines: everyone by nature desires happiness, happiness is fulfillment of human potential, human potential is grounded in human nature, human nature is shared by all, so that morality — which is based on consideration of which acts contribute to human happiness (in its fullest and richest sense) — is the same for all. A moral philosophy of this sort does not appeal to God, except perhaps remotely (as grounding natures, for instance, or as the highest good), but I think it could work. Not that there are many takers, as far as I can tell.

  4. resident film & theology expert

    I agree with Craig to the extent that, it must be some kind of insight that I don’t have, that without God there is no morality. I just don’t see it.

  5. Not that there’s no morality, but there’s no truly objective morality. Nothing that is intrinsic in the nature of things. Craig’s idea is probably more or less what most atheists believe, but ultimately, it’s consequentialism. You would eventually arrive at some point where you would have to either say something’s wrong because it’s intrinsically wrong, or not. Also, it depends on agreement about human nature and potential etc. I mean, it’s not just a straw man or a caricature to note that a lot of people believe the greatest possible amount of sexual expression is an important human need.
    In practice, you don’t necessarily get much further toward moral consensus with God in the picture since you have to get agreement about who God is and what he wants, but there’s a significant conceptual difference.

  6. I agree that it would be hard to get consensus on moral judgements. I also think that atheism wedded to contemporary materialism would, if truly consistent, have a hard time sustaining the conceptual structure of Aristotelian ethics, which presupposes ‘human nature’, human freedom, rational deliberation, and so forth.
    I do not quite agree, however, that Aristotelian ethics is not objective. It has the same degree of objectivity as does human nature, in which it is grounded. It has a very hard time with the idea of moral obligation, though. We are obliged to seek happiness (but even then ‘obligation’ is not quite the right word, since we seek happiness automatically and cannot avoid doing so), but moral precepts, being derived from prudential decisions about what leads to the greatest and truest happiness, would tend to be rather soft.
    Aristotelian ethics make a good deal of sense for theists too.

  7. Well, I would be out of my depth pretty soon if I pursue this, and anyway am in a hurry (going out of town tomorrow and have worked till after 8). But it seems to me that this atheist-but-Aristotelian idea becomes the God-without-God that the fellow in the article was talking about. It doesn’t seem like pure atheism.
    Must go…

  8. I don’t disagree with you; not really. Aristotle was not an atheist, and his moral philosophy is not truly atheistic, not all the way down. But it does seem that something like his system would be better than relativism or nihilism.
    Have a good weekend!

  9. resident film & theology expert

    It’s true that while Aristotle says what we want from life is pleasure, he constantly calls on human ‘idealism’ (for want of a better term on my part). What is his contemplative man (the highest, in his view) contemplating if it ain’t God? The system works because of a deep underpinning of Greek tradition, Homer and mythology.

  10. The problem with this discussion is that there is a God and He did make us, so of course, we are all beings with a moral aspect to our nature. This means that atheists can be good. Free will means that anyone, including a Christian, can be bad.
    Talking about how people can have a moral framework if there is no God seems to be silly, if there really is a God b/c the system we observe is one which God really has made.
    I’m tired, so maybe I’m just talking nonsense!

  11. resident film & theology expert

    No, or anyway I have the same the problem with hypothesising about what things would be like without a God. As it is, people are born with a concience and seek its source.

  12. “Talking about how people can have a moral framework if there is no God seems to be silly, if there really is a God b/c the system we observe is one which God really has made.”
    Yes, many atheists tend to confuse the issue. It’s not that atheists can’t be good people, it’s that the root of their goodness goes no deeper than themselves, and as such is arbitrary. This is what Dostoevsky meant by “If there is no God, everything is permitted.” Without a ground beyond the merely human, where does one human stand in order to judge another human’s morality?

  13. Humanity is the best basis for morality. Grounding it in divine will just leads to Calvinism, and then weirder stuff than that. Actual human people and their human needs are where morality needs grounding.
    The problem, though, is that if you don’t know that God made people and loves them, you might not understand this and will make the mistake of thinking that moral judgements can be reduced to personal preferences.

  14. I suppose the irony is that a Catholic can say with confidence that an atheist can be moral, but an atheist (or at least most current sorts of atheist) can have no solid philosophical basis for such a conviction.

  15. “…people are born with a concience and seek its source.”
    The first is always true (except maybe for some extremely rare freaks), the second is certainly a universal instinct but it can be denied. That’s really the essence of my complaint about the usual atheist bunch that I was complaining about: with an effort, they refuse to seek the source. Maybe it’s the effort that makes them so irritable about it.

  16. I like that last comment a lot. Not sure what you mean about humanity being the best basis for morality, though.

  17. I’m not explaining myself very well. It’s just that “Because God says so” is no basis for morality (which I take to mean a system of assumptions and guidelines by which to judge whether one course of action is the best, or sufficient, in any particular human situation). God “says so” because He loves us, and knows we need certain things in order to live good lives (like not being killed, or killers, or robbed, or robbers, or cheated, or cheats). But as Rob G said, somebody like Aristotle (or, even more to the point, Confucius) could work that out for themselves.
    And there are pragmatic reasons even for accepting the basics of Christian morality. The Ten Commandments would have gone a long way to keep us out of the current financial crisis (for instance), regardless of whether or not we should keep them because God says so.

  18. I think the traditional Catholic way of looking at it is not so much “it’s right because God says so” as that God is incapable of commanding anything that is not right. I suppose some say that’s playing with words but I think there’s a big difference. I don’t know if Calvinism actually deserves this, but there’s at least the impression that according to it God can do things which are obviously unjust by any standard we can imagine, and that’s ok because he’s God. I don’t really see that as a problem with the Catholic way of looking at it, though (at least as I understand it).

  19. And there are pragmatic reasons even for accepting the basics of Christian morality. The Ten Commandments would have gone a long way to keep us out of the current financial crisis (for instance)
    I remember being very amused by my atheist friend and her atheist husband who nevertheless put their boys into the local Christian school, b/c they wanted the boys to learn about “the ten commandments” b/c it occurred to me that really they must have only meant “the seven commandments”! LOL!
    But yes, obey the 10 commandments and hey presto! one avoids a great deal of pain (or at least causing it).

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